????投資經(jīng)理是否把你的根本利益放在心上？除了投資公司Peregrine長(zhǎng)達(dá)數(shù)十年的騙局之外，還有些基金經(jīng)理的投資方式也并不像你所期望的那樣。路透社（Reuters ）周五報(bào)道勞工部（the Labor Department）可能正在調(diào)查摩根大通（J.P. Morgan）違背信托責(zé)任的情況。據(jù)稱(chēng)，該行的穩(wěn)定價(jià)值基金（Stable Value Fund）投資于“公司自身承銷(xiāo)和評(píng)級(jí)的私人抵押債券”，而此基金是為401(k)退休計(jì)劃設(shè)計(jì)的投資工具，本應(yīng)是“雇員最保守的投資選擇：流動(dòng)性好并有保險(xiǎn)支持”。本月早些時(shí)候，《華爾街日?qǐng)?bào)》（Wall Street Journal）報(bào)道共同基金和401(k)投資顧問(wèn)將Facebook納入價(jià)值基金的投資組合，然而“Facebook并不算是價(jià)值股票”。作為Facebook上市的主承銷(xiāo)商，摩根史坦利投資管理公司（Morgan Stanley Investment Management）運(yùn)營(yíng)的基金“在其投資組合中用最高比例投資于Facebook?！?/p>

????我最近有幸和先鋒集團(tuán)（the Vanguard Group）的創(chuàng)始人杰克?博格爾交流，他也是指數(shù)共同基金的開(kāi)路先鋒。我們談到了投資管理和公司治理的現(xiàn)狀。下面是編輯過(guò)的談話記錄。

????我們六年前討論你的書(shū)《資本主義靈魂之戰(zhàn)》（The Battle for the Soul of Capitalism）的時(shí)候，金融危機(jī)還沒(méi)有發(fā)生，F(xiàn)acebook也沒(méi)有上市。也還沒(méi)有惠普（HP）、切薩皮克（Chesapeake）能源公司和沃爾瑪（Wal-Mart）的丑聞，這都是最近的例子。你是否認(rèn)為，我們已經(jīng)輸了？

????我認(rèn)為我們還沒(méi)有輸?shù)糍Y本主義靈魂之戰(zhàn)。但目前我們的資本體系表現(xiàn)糟糕。長(zhǎng)期投資被短期投機(jī)行為擠出市場(chǎng)，就像由租客而不是車(chē)主在把握方向。個(gè)人投資者無(wú)法為自己的利益大聲疾呼。70%的市場(chǎng)由代理（代表他人投資的公司）把持。而代理體制運(yùn)營(yíng)不佳。

????我們有可能會(huì)輸?shù)糍Y本主義靈魂之戰(zhàn)，但只要有足夠多的人仍然相信自由市場(chǎng)制度是最佳選擇，相信開(kāi)放市場(chǎng)的可行性，我們就能扭轉(zhuǎn)乾坤。資本主義已被濫用，但資本主義仍將回歸。這么好的制度不應(yīng)該失敗。

????董事會(huì)需要做出什么改進(jìn)？

????董事會(huì)需要為股東利益服務(wù)，成為管理層的監(jiān)管者，而不是他們的同盟軍。管理層大權(quán)在握：他們控制著數(shù)據(jù)，可以按照需要來(lái)決定發(fā)布還是保留。

????眼前就有兩個(gè)例子。董事會(huì)放任公司的開(kāi)支，用在不該用的地方。一方面是政治捐款。另一方面是高得離譜的薪酬。某些薪酬顧問(wèn)雖然號(hào)稱(chēng)獨(dú)立人士，但如果他們不給管理層漲工資就待不下去。

????基金行業(yè)也存在同樣的問(wèn)題。我們既不愿意觸怒現(xiàn)有客戶(hù)，也不想得罪潛在客戶(hù)。

????信托機(jī)構(gòu)需要做出什么改進(jìn)？

????老實(shí)說(shuō)，基金行業(yè)現(xiàn)在正經(jīng)歷著一場(chǎng)革命。指數(shù)基金開(kāi)始占據(jù)上風(fēng)。在到5月底的五年間，有6,000億美元流入指數(shù)基金，而4,000億美元流出到活躍投資的基金。指數(shù)基金占到行業(yè)資產(chǎn)的28%。

????指數(shù)基金擁有者需要改變行為方式，要去鼓勵(lì)和推動(dòng)公司董事考慮股東利益，要讓手中的投票發(fā)揮作用。

????公司的行為如何影響我們的經(jīng)濟(jì)實(shí)力？公司對(duì)長(zhǎng)遠(yuǎn)利益的關(guān)注是否足夠？

????我覺(jué)得還不夠。我們需要回歸長(zhǎng)期投資。市場(chǎng)充斥著投機(jī)分子，他們并不參與代理投票。因?yàn)樗麄冎皇亲饪?、短期行為者，公司治理?duì)他們毫無(wú)意義。

????國(guó)會(huì)、證券交易委員會(huì)（SEC）、最高法院（the Supreme Court）、投資經(jīng)理和分析師都沒(méi)有盡到自己的責(zé)任。我們必須把市場(chǎng)交還給擁有者。我們需要一個(gè)關(guān)心公司治理的體系。

????我了解到你寫(xiě)了一本新書(shū)，書(shū)名是《文化沖突：投資和投機(jī)》（The Clash of the Cultures: Investment versus Speculation）。書(shū)的內(nèi)容是什么？

????Do investment money managers have your best interests at heart? Beyond Peregrine's long-running fraud, some money managers may not be investing your money in the way you expect. Reuters reported on Friday that the Labor Department may be looking into a possible breach of fiduciary duty by J.P. Morgan (JPM). The company put "private mortgage debt underwritten and rated by the bank itself" in its Stable Value Fund, a vehicle designed for 401(k) plans that is supposed "to be the most conservative choice for employees -- liquid and backed by insurance," the report stated. And earlier this month, the Wall Street Journal reported that mutual funds and 401(k) advisors put Facebook (FB) into portfolios advertised as value funds, although "Facebook isn't considered a value stock." Funds run by Morgan Stanley Investment Management, lead underwriter of Facebook's IPO "put the highest percentage of their portfolios in Facebook."

????I recently spoke with Jack Bogle, founder of the Vanguard Group and the first index mutual fund, about the state of money management and corporate governance today. Here's an edited transcript of our conversation.

????When we talked six years ago about your book, The Battle for the Soul of Capitalism, there was no financial crisis, no Facebook IPO. We hadn't seen the scandals at HP, Chesapeake, and Wal-Mart, to name some recent examples. Would you say that battle has been lost?

????I don't think we've lost the battle for the soul of capitalism. But right now, our capital system is functioning badly. Long-term investment is being crowded out by short-term speculation. Instead of owners, we have renters of capitalism in the driver's seat. And individual investors don't speak up for themselves. Seventy percent of the market is owned by agents [those who invest other people's money]. And the agency system is not working well.

????The battle for the soul of capitalism could be lost, but as long as there are enough of us left that believe the free market system is best, that open markets can work, we can turn this around. Capitalism has been abused. But capitalism is going to come back. It's too good not to.

????What do boards need to be doing that they still aren't?

????Boards need to be overseers of management and act in the interest of shareholders rather than as partners of management. Management has all the weapons. They have the data. They can give out what they want to and not share the data they don't want to.

????Two examples now. Today, boards are allowing companies to spend dollars in ways they shouldn't. One is on political contributions. The other is the absurdly outrageous salaries we see today. Some compensation consultants may be called independent but you aren't going to be a success if you don't give management a raise.

????In the fund system, we have the same problem. We don't want to offend actual clients and we don't want to offend potential clients.

????What do fiduciaries [these agents who invest others' money] need to do that they aren't?

????Honestly, we are having a revolution going on in the fund industry. Index funds are dominating. In the five years through May, there has been a $600 billion inflow into index funds and $400 billion lost to funds that are actively invested. Index funds make up 28% of industry assets.We must have index owners act in a way they aren't right now, to encourage and push corporate directors to consider shareholder interests, and to use their votes to do that.

????How do you see corporate actions affecting our economic strength? Are companies focused enough on the long-term?

????No, I don't think they are. We need to turn back to long-term investing. The market is made up of speculators that don't vote proxies. Governance means nothing if you are a renter, a short-termer.

????Congress, the SEC, the Supreme Court, money managers, and analysts have all let us down. We have to put the markets back in the hands of owners. We have to have a system that cares about governance.

????I understand you have written a new book called The Clash of the Cultures: Investment versus Speculation. What's it about?